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1. Remember Lots wife!". Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. Matthew 13:30 . They will want you to return evil for their evil when they speak against you for receiving it. Please. Luke 17:34-35, The Fate of the Raptured | The Dubious Disciple Because Jesus Christ is the spotless Lamb of God who took away the sins of the world (John 1:29-34) by dying upon the cross, being buried and rising again as He promised (Matthew 16:21-23, 17:22-23; Mark 8:31-33, 9:30-32; Luke 9:21-22, 18:31-34), we now possess through Him the hope and reality of our own resurrection. My question is, Who are taken, and who are left behind, and how are we to understand Luke 17:37? of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his Since those who subscribe to amillennialism don't believe in rapture, how do they interpret Luke 17:30-34. We who believe must ARISE and go from here and snatch others from the coming fire as well. A remnant will survive. There is no doubt the disciples were referring to the ones taken. For a more complete explanation, please see Judgment of the Nations, also called the Sheep and Goat Judgment. (15) And when the morning arose, then One obvious key word in our passage is "day"and "days," hmera. (37) And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? (14) And Lot went out, and spake unto his sons Luke 17:37: The Carcasses, the Eagles, and the Taken one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall (12) I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot One will be taken and the other left. It is true that the parable of the Net catching good and bad fish teaches that the bad fish will be first cast away and the good fish will remain for the kingdom at the coming of the Lord. 2) The Gospels must be interpreted as addressed to Israel and not the Church because a new dispensation of the Church had not begun at the time. My code is GPL licensed, can I issue a license to have my code be distributed in a specific MIT licensed project? Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with sulfur. Search. . Though there are widely disparate opinions about what Jesus meant by his use of this phrase, I suggest there is a unanimity among conservative scholars that God is going to bring history as we know it to a conclusion, at which time he will usher in the new heaven and the new earth. The passage in Luke 17 appears to be parallel to Matthew 24. As the men of Sodom, they will weary themselves to find the door in their spiritual blindness brought upon them for their unbelief in the hearing and resistance of Word of Truth. 4. The Present and Future Kingdom (Luke 17:20-37) - JesusWalk Then, Jesus gives another example for the same concept Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Luke 17 And The Rapture expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter They all deal with the same subject matter, the coming of His Kingdom, not the rapture. The question we are to consider in this paper is the interpretation of part of the Lords words in the Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24:1-44) and the Lords answer to the Pharisees question, When the kingdom of God should come? in Luke17:20. Verse 37 in Luke immediately follows the description of the rapture of believers (verses 34-36). shall lose his life shall preserve it. There will be two women grinding together. Jeremiah 9:23-24. 41 Two women will be grinding meal That is, Ezekiel 39 and Revelation 19 also appear to be parallel as apparent eschatological events of predictive prophecy, since both chapters also mention the birds of prey devouring those judged on earth at that time. How to Read the 'Rapture' Verses | Catholic Answers Revelation 14:10 KJV (10) The same shall drink of the wine of the After answering the Pharisees in Luke 17, Jesus said: I tell you, in that night there shall be two in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Remember Lots wife. All Sermons Bible Studies Devotionals Prayers. (48) He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath Genesis 19:9-15 KJV (9) And they said, Stand back. Luke 17 provides further powerful proof of the order of gatherings, as if the harmony of several passages so far were not enough. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you with the brightness of his coming: The wicked will be tormented in the presence of the Lamb as we keep His sacrifice when the persecute us. When the righteous (think about righteous Lot here) are taken out of the churches of the unbelievers, then the Wicked are revealed as they will speak evil words against the believers who leave. How to tell which packages are held back due to phased updates. (10) But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house Real Answers. Luke 17:34 describes what will happen after the judgment. 36 But about that day and hour no one knows, neither the angels of February 27, 2023 equitable estoppel california No Comments . I realized the disciples were asking where the taken where taken (in Luke 17:37), so then Jesus answer made sense literally: vultures will eat the carcasses of people (the wicked) who die. They will rise like eagles ascending on the hot air draft until we disappear from sight through the door of heaven forever with the Lord! pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door. All Videos Images Commentaries Devotionals Other Translations Sermons Related Scriptures Podcasts Blogs. At the rapture, of course, believers are taken. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. To make things worse the NET Bible has added the word "dead" which is not in the Greek text. And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together (Luke 17:34-37). Revelation 6:15-17; 2 Thessalonians 2:8; Isaiah 11:4 _____ Rebuttals 12. He has revealed to us the" mystery of his will"(Ephesians 1:9) Learning about it can lead to salvation and can provide you with a glimpse into the Creator's unfathomable wisdom. Again in the Lords high priestly prayer Jesus prayed: Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one (one Body in Christ); as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me (John 17:20-21). and hath nothing in me.*. Points 10 and 11 (Luke 17:34-35) say that "one will be taken and the other left" and this is the Rapture. He calls himself , because he saves us by his death, and feeds us by his body, in his Church, Word, and sacraments . (32) Remember Lot's wife. In Luke 24:13, two apostles are mentioned. Another example given by Jesus ( a few verses earlier) was that of Lot, who was "taken along" by the angel and the others were abandoned. mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not One will be taken and the other left.") Jesus' answer in Luke 17:37 plainly points to judgment. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and Luke 17:34-37 (NIV84) 34 "I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. being evil, speak good things? For more information about this event, we must read Matthew 25:31-46. The carcase is Christ, or the body of Christ; the eagles are the saints, or true Christians; these, whatever happens, will, with keen spiritual sight, always be able to discern Christ and his body, and to flock thereto. Sin is present in their multitude of words and this shall destroy them in Gods righteous judgment upon them. the mouth speaketh. Lk 17:34-37, Rapture or 2nd coming? | Rapture Forums Because this Greek word has been used in a judgment passage of . In other words, an equally legitimate interpretation of the disciples' question is that the disciples wanted to know where the events Jesus was telling them about would take place. It is described in Matthew 25:31-46. Jesus indicated that the people taken will be killed when the disciples asked "taken where?" They will show that they do not know the Lord by their evil words and actions against those who will receive the Word of Truth in faith. Mark 13, Luke 17:20 - 37 and Matthew 24-25 are the Words of Jesus giving His Olivet Discourse. (7) For the mystery of iniquity Donations to this ministry aretax-deductible. Also check out the words wherever and where in Matt 24:28 and Luke 17:37. In addition, the goat nations who receive the mark of the Beast during the Tribulation, will be brought before the throne of Christs glory and be cast into everlasting fire (Matthew 25:31-46). the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? Jesus didnt say it was the Rapture. together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. The words taken and left have a literal meaning. daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of Most of the entries in the NAME column of the output from lsof +D /tmp do not begin with /tmp. And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2017%3A20-37&version=NET;NKJV. Then there will be two men in the field; one will be taken and one will be left. In one case those left are judged and in the other case those left are blessed! And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had done the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped its image. Here is Luke 17:30-33, It will be just the same on the day that the Son of Man is revealed. 2 It would be better for him if a millstone [as large as one turned by a donkey] were hung around his neck and he were hurled into the sea, than . The verb grinding is feminine. One of the SIGNS Jesus gave to the nation of Israel that the end of the age has come would be a global disappearance of individuals who would be received to Himself while the rest would be left, put away in judgment. Matthew 24:40-41; Luke 17:26-30, 34-36 (34 I tell you, in that night there will be two in one bed. will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 24 answer, and I originally didn't see the Luke 17 answer on CSE. (8) And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the " Thanks for contributing an answer to Biblical Hermeneutics Stack Exchange! That judgment is the Goat and Sheep Judgment. Soma comes from the Greek word sozo meaning I save. Revelation 19:17-21. (33) Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and of Man is revealed. John 16:7-13 KJV (7) Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is In the book of Daniel 9:26 it states "The end will come like a flood" Here is a parallel that liken the two ends as similar. (1-2) The danger of stumbling another. Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever Their own words will come back upon them to destroy them. It is the only interpretation that is true to the literal meaning of the words and the Jewish context of the passage. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed (Luke 17:2830). Jesus' reply clearly indicates judgment. Thank you for contributing. We must be faithful to the context which is Israel in the last days. THE RAPTURE, A SECRET UNTIL JESUS CHRIST REVEALED IT TO PAUL Attempting to argue against those who say Jesus never preached about the Rapture, people will take Jesus' words in Matthew 24:40-41 and Luke 17:34-36 about individuals being taken away, and make them apply to people being taken to heaven in the Rapture. The image is from a painting by: Hieronymus Bosch. is luke 21:36 talking about the rapture - shreyanspos.com But most importantly the word for body is NOT a dead carcase (ptoma) but a living body (soma)! righteousness, and of judgment: (9) Of sin, because they believe not The following accounts in Matthew and Luke are the primary scriptures used to teach the idea of a secret rapture. The word for eagle occurs 4 times in the New Testament and always from the same Greek word. For more information on the Goat and Sheep Judgment, please read, When and where does the Goat and Sheep judgment occur? This is also called the Judgment of the Nations. In verse 26, Jesus resembled the days of Noah with His second coming: And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. A non-profit, 501(c)3 corporation. I was pleased to see the CEB use the word "disciple" to refer to the mysterious young man who appears in Mark 14:51-52, after the 12 disciples desert Jesus and run away. Whereas the eagles in Matthew 24:28 gather around carcases, the eagles in Luke 17:37 gather around living bodies. 1 Jesus said to His disciples, "Stumbling blocks [temptations and traps set to lure one to sin] are sure to come, but woe (judgment is coming) to him through whom they come! Im Matthew 24:28 the context is look out for false Christs, they are every where. So how do we interpret the words of Jesus when He said that in one night there would a global disappearance of individuals from bed, the field and at the mill? Below you will see three different translations of the original Greek Koine. shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Big difference. Some will hear and believe and come out from among the unbelievers (the dead body) who will not believe in the revealed Word of Truth when they hear it. They will "weary" themselves to get you to speak evil back so that they are justified in their own eyes. proclaiming therefore that the kingdom is here already (even if carnal eyes cannot see it). saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; together", 37 "Then[a] the disciples[b] said[c] to him, Where,[d] Lord? He Now lets read the verses you are referring to in (Luke 3436): I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other left. I will answer it myself, if no one else has a satisfactory answer, but I would like to keep it open, just in case. This is how it is in the parable of the wheat and tares (Mt 13:24-30, 36-43). Whom did you cite saying this? The NASB simply translates the word as two. Luke 17:35 (NASB). Not to a rotting carcase but to the living body that rose from the dead and is alive for evermore! We must leave their "church"we must depart in this coming time so that the Wicked shall be revealed and their judgment is executed. This is a picture* of angels that are in the process of transporting from earth newly departed peoples' souls, through the legendary dark tunnel, to the heavenly light in the far distance. The body is the dead body of unbelievers we are to leave behind in order to follow Jesus. One will be taken and the other left. For example, it is important to notice that in Luke 17:22 we are told that Jesus referred to the days of the Son of Man, and He did it again in Luke 17:30. wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his John 14:3). 0 Was Jesus talking about the rapture or judgment in Luke 17:34-37? @majnemzdn Are you a riddle wrapped in an enigma..;>) ? Sadly by remaining where they are, they are taken to be executed under the reign of the Anti-Christ as this is during the 3 1/2 years of the great tribulation. Therefore, we do not know if Jesus was referring to two men, two women or just two people, such as a married couple. Again, we learn that the people taken out of the city were the saved. (Matthew 24:40-42). 42 Keep awake Annette Bell on Twitter: "Pre-Tribulation Rapture also is not true." and the other shall be left. In this passage it is even clearer that Jesus was referring to His second coming because He said the coming of the Son of Man. This means the illustration of the two men in the field or the two women grinding is not about the rapture. on me; (10) Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see Other scriptures could be added such as John 14:3 which clearly refers to the Rapture though, at the time, Jesus ministry was confined to the lost sheep of the house of Israel (Matthew 10:6). he might be revealed in his time. Antichrist will be slain with his False Prophet and they will be given their resurrection bodies and cast alive into the lake of fire. For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be. Biblical Hermeneutics Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for professors, theologians, and those interested in exegetical analysis of biblical texts. To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. Luke-21:25-34-kjv. One day many years ago, I prayed earnestly to understand Jesus answer in Luke 17:37, and He answered my prayer using Scripture. Each Book adds a little more detail to the questions His Disciples asked of Jesus about His coming Kingdom "when . And the ones left were the ones destroyed by fire. 37 "Where, Lord?" they asked. (31) In that day, he which shall be upon the Next, Jesus said once again one will be taken and one left. As Lot was taken out of Sodom before its destruction, we who will believe in Him also are to be taken from among the unbelievers. Jesus turned to His Disciples and indicated that they would not live to see the kingdom for He must first suffer many things and be rejected of the nation. Luke 17:34 (NKJV). the other left. Luke 17. When the Lord comes to open up the Scriptures to our hearing ears, there is going to be a major upset among the churches of men who will hear His voice (in the Spirit of Truth) and not believe and agree with what He says as they will seek to defend their denominational interpretationstheir own thoughts and ways. Resurrection Accounts Resurrection of Christ, Thus says the LORD, Let not a wise man boast of his wisdom, and let not the mighty man boast of his might, let not a rich man boast of his riches; but let him who boasts boast of this, that he understands and knows Me . Two shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. There we discover Luke 17:30-35 and Matthew 24:37-41 are illustrations of the Judgment of the Nations, which is also called the Sheep and Goat Judgment (Matthew 25:31-46). Was Jesus talking about the rapture or judgment in Luke 17:34-37? A good man will bring good things out of his heart while an evil heart shall speak a multitude of evil words. Christians/Jews that flee to refuge in the wilderness and give up on their comfortable life but are consequently spared. We have 3 groups of people here. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. In Matthew 24, when it speaks about the Tribulation, it states that: wheresoever the carcase (ptoma) is, there will the eagles be gathered together. A very important study that also explains this illustration is, Seven Signs of Christs Second Coming.. Luke says, the Flood came and destroyed them all, and Matthew says, the Flood came and took them all away. To be taken was to be destroyed, or die. Inded, welcome! in law, which married his daughters, and said, Up, get you out of this them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered ai thinker esp32 cam datasheet they wearied themselves to find the door. Saints: being, the Vultures will gather! So, AFTER the Great Tribulation, Jesus will return like lightning to rapture believers and to destroy sinners. We are to leave it all behind for His sake and the good news of our salvation that we hear in the Word of Truth spoken to our hearing ears from Heaven above. Nevertheless He gave the Disciples three signs that would indicate when the Kingdom would be established. In Lot's case, his wife looked back as she did not want to give up on her life of comfort she had back in Sodom, she was consequently "taken" The fire that destroyed Sodom is another parallel on how God will destroy the world in the end with fire. Luke 17:31 Commentaries: "On that day, the one who is on - Bible Hub So what does it mean that "the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city"? It has come to my attention, and as I understand it, that those who insist that the rapture verses of Matthew 24:40-41 and Luke 17:34-36 are, in their opinion, a judgment of the unsaved, are saying that the Greek word "paralambn" - as found in another passage of Scripture - can carry the connotation of judgment. New Living Translation That night two people will be asleep in one bed; one will be taken, the other left. The believers that are taken are not to look back (remember Lots wife) to their churches but just leave it all behind. Israel were the sheep in the fold but the Church was a future flock of Jews and Gentiles, all one in Christ. When I compared the accounts of the Flood (Luke 17:26-27, Matthew 24:37-39), I noticed Jesus was talking about the same people wicked people who died in the Flood. When it comes, it will be as obvious as the lightning which flashes and lights up the entire sky. Luke 17 | AMP Bible | YouVersion (h) Vid. The prince of this world.those who love the preeminence (love to be first) among the churches will have nothing to do with Him as they will come forth to persecute those who will receive His words and exercise their authority over the churches as they will act like Diotrephes did. It is true that when the Lord comes after the Tribulation He will judge the ungodly. Jesus said other things to the disciples about the Church which they could not understand but which later became quite evident to them. judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. We must be able to go directly to the Word of God and expound the truth from the Text of Scripture. Do new devs get fired if they can't solve a certain bug? This is "the Supper of the Great God" (verse 17) and "the Marriage . : [Pro 30:17 KJV] 17 The eye [that] mocketh at [his] father, and despiseth to obey [his] mother, the ravens of the valley shall pick it out, and the young eagles shall eat it. heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil Two Men in one Bed (Luke 17:34) - Redeeming God The NKJV translates the Greek word duoas two men in Luke 17:34, but the NASB does not. However, I am dissatisfied with the answers given, as they are either "off the wall", or "I don't know-but I think this". How do I align things in the following tabular environment? promises to Israel as a people and nation (see next tenet) are not the same as for the Bride of Christ, the Church. Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one will be left. It would be true to say that the Disciples could not have understood Jesus to be referring to the Rapture but to say that Jesus was not speaking of the Rapture is just a wrong exposition. A Farewell to the Rapture in Matthew 24? Problem Texts for Holistic What was the importance of the horns of the altar (Amos 3:14)? me no more; (11) Of judgment, because the prince of this world is world. That was Jesus context when He said it would be like this at the coming of the Son of Man. them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two I was less than satisfied with the Matt. place; for the LORD will destroy this city. 17:37 1881 Westcott-Hort New Testament (WHNU), 37 For seven months the house of Israel will be burying them, in order to cleanse the land. whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. This is the correct interpretation of one taken and the other left. First, this teaching does not align with the separation of the sheep from the goats in Matthew 25:31-46. Those taken or those left behind? One will be taken and the other left. de Lectis Veter. Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. Where will they be taken? treasure bringeth forth evil things. There He simply said day that the Son of Man. The term Son of Man is a reference to Himself. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. If you feel an answer is not 100% Bible based, then leave a comment, and we'll be sure to review it. This is definately an idiom or para-phrased statement!. Bible Based.We believe in solo-scriptura. Jesus faulted the Pharisees for missing (ignoring) the signs of the times: His own day WAS the "last days"! So those taken were killed in flood. shalt be condemned. 34 I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. gospels - In Luke 17:37 who are taken, who are left behind and where Thank God his saints will be taken at some point to their eternal reward (exactly when is a hotly contested point among eschatologists). Please explain the end of Luke 17. Is this the Rapture they are talking It would make sense that those taken will be devoured. (35) A good man out of the good treasure of the All the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven are the multitude of words that will fly out of the mouths of all the unbelievers in this coming time.and it is by our words that we are justified and it is by our own words that we are condemned. We must also leave the churches of the unbelievers in this coming time or be consumed in the iniquity of the city as we may render evil for their evil if we stay too long. What I put forward is not my view but what the text clearly teaches. for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you. (30) Hereafter ptma G4430 is coprse, caracass. (Luke 17:34) The day that the Son of Man is revealed seems to be the same day on which destruction comes, the day when one is taken and another left. 35 Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left. After Jesus said, one would be taken and the other left, the disciples asked where they would be left. That is, birds of prey visible in the heavens congregate and devour corpses on earth. The word for taken in Luke 17:34 is the Greek word paralamban, which means to receive from and is the same Greek word that is used in John 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. This seems to refer to Christ taking the church in the event of the rapture rather than some other sort of taken. presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: The short answer is that in the narratives of Matt 24, Lk 21, and Mk 13, Jesus is speaking of the siege of Jerusalem and the destruction of the Temple by the armies of Rome. Eagles go for bodies, vultures go for corpses. They are similar but Lukes account took place about a week before the Olivet Discourse. They are not still future. There will be two women grinding at the same place; one will be taken and the other will be left. D) A Literal 1000-Year Millennium The Bible describes a future, Luke 17:34 (NASB), I tell you, in that night there will be two men in one bed: the one will be taken and the other will be left. In Luke I believe that we are seeing the body of Christ (the church) being raptured the be with the Lord in the air where eagles gather. 52:49. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. Luke 17:37: The Most Overlooked Bible Prophecy Verse? Two men walking up a hill,/ One disappears and one's left standing still;/ I wish we'd all been ready. unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be