However the scarring on the trees did not and the angles were off. NHFG Wildlife Biologist Patrick Tate identifies this cat as a bobcat. So before we get to the the the the stories of sightings we're getting a lot of calls. However, dispersing western mountain lions have left evidence as close as Connecticut, Massachusetts and New York. I came to a stop and it was and I've seen a lot of bobcats in my time and I just came to a stop it was just sort of confused about what I was seeing. Rick van de Poll: Oh yeah absolutely. Yet this young male traveled about 1,800 miles. 'Like we did as kids': Horse makes snow angels with her owner in New Just. And really whenever you hear tiny code and long rope like tale it's kind of hard to pin this sighting on any other creature rather than an outline or just nothing else really matches that description. To date most of the pictures that have been sent in have been bobcats and other species Ive received pictures of house cats. Are these big cats back?Subscribe to WMUR on YouTube now for more: http://bit.ly/1lOjX9CGet more Manchester news: http://wmur.comLike us: http://facebook.com. But you've done some reporting on this. For instance, Floridas wildlife officials have a similar ghost cat: the black panther. Residents believe cougars still roam New Hampshire's forests The report came in from a conservation officer. Patrick Tate: So Cougar Mountain Lion katama. Yes. M from Tree Hill author series presenting Diane lay back. Mountain Lions are a mythical creature in New Hampshire with strong feelings on both sides of the question: are there Mountain Lions in New Hampshire? Kyle I think about Rick Tate wants to jump in here. Today she talked with us a little bit before the show about why the mountain line is so compelling and why we want it to be part of our world. Which goes back to the Connecticut Connecticut cat and what not. Yeah I did. So what those ranges. Thanks very much. Caller: Oh yeah. 44-N Links. List of Mountains in New Hampshire is a general list of mountains in New Hampshire, with elevation.This list includes many mountains in the White Mountains range that covers about a quarter of the state, as well as mountains outside of that range.. The Eastern mountain lion is extinct in the eastern United States and Canada, but in 2011, a . Patrick Tate: I've had hunters hang deer carcasses forbidding wildlife entries. That's pretty elaborate. Despite numerous reports, the NH Fish and Game Department continues to have no physical evidence of mountain lion presence in the state. He played a pivotal role and he battled for recognition. Peter Biello: From New Hampshire Public Radio I'm Peter Biello in for Lark Knoy and this is the exchange. Russ, from Sandwich (and Bedford) asks: In Sandwich New Hampshire, everybody has a story about seeing a mountain lion. What's going on. Mountain lions (especially males) have incredibly large ranges that they defend from rivals. Mountain Lions in New England: Sightings, Science & Bobcat vs Mountain Lion Give us a call if you have a question or comments or story about perhaps seeing a mountain lion here in New Hampshire. And it's not really strong. We're not in the woods. Peter Biello: So Patrick today Fish and Game no downward pressure on you to deny the existence at all costs of mountain lions here in New Hampshire. And still the the folks there did weren't able to come up with it with 100 percent certainty what deposited that scat. 50 feet above the most. And that's this morning at 10:00 here on NH PR. You saw what you saw. Id like to hazard the explanation that we really, really want to see a mountain lion. But you won't find evidence of their existence in paw prints in the snow or a deer carcass in a tree. Love hearing these stories. Well they are the same. Mountain Lions | Wildlife | New Hampshire Fish and Game Department I noticed it had a really big sweeping tail that kind of curled up behind it and all but still at that point because everyone says there's no mountain lions here. So there's even debate about that very subject. What gets confusing is when you have a large adult animal and a smaller juvenile animal of a different species you can now step start beginning talking about overlapping body weights and sizes. Good morning guys. So hey, just me shooting from the hip, maybe there are a couple mountain lions skulking about. Updated: 9:53 AM EST Dec 6, 2016. Its actually fairly reasonable to believe that mountain lions do, at least, pass through occasionally. Lions Clubs Int'l Links: LionNet NH Links 2011 -2012 . BRADFORD, N.H. - All that snow in parts of the Northeast has more than just kids jumping for winter joy. Peter Biello: The number is 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. The most common areas to see mountain lions in Arizona are in places of rocky and mountainous terrain. So Pat you field a lot of calls about people seeing or reportedly seeing mountain lions. Mountain lions when they show up they leave evidence. Mountain Lion Population (In Each U.S. State) - Wildlife Informer I would just suggest that in my experience as a reporter covering this covering this issue for a few years at least at what point do we reach a certain critical mass for lack of a better term of accounts where I'm not to suggest that you guys aren't taking this possibility seriously. There's never, ever, ever, ever been a documented case of a black mountain lion. Peter Biello: So if they were female mountain lions here they would be more males just because that's what they're looking for. They lived perhaps elsewhere in New England and they were just passing through and happened to have an encounter of some sort. Join as a $8 per month sustainer and get our brand-new owl umbrella! Sue Morse: The big cat really commands the utmost respect not so much fear but fascination. Tim Yeah. Our guests today Patrick Tate New Hampshire Fish and Game Wildlife biologist Sam Evans Brown host of an HP podcast outside in. It's you know I recognized their report and. From came from out west they tracked it all the way back to the Black Hills in the Dakotas. Peter Biello: When did you allegedly see a mountain lion. So and so the idea that they can follow up on every individual sighting is just crazy right. John thanks. And here we're talking about in this situation we're talking about it migrated from the West. My wife and I saw a mountain lion. Have a photo. Mountain Lions in NH. I just want to tell you a story that I read. All of that remains unanswered but it is an extremely interesting question. Peter Biello: But clearly you know you're saying like hoaxes people who claim to have seen a mountain lion but knowingly have not or are appropriating photos taken elsewhere of legit mountain lion say out West where they people acknowledge that they exist certainly knowingly or unknowingly in this case the person who sent it to me said hey a friend of mine sent me this photo and said he took it on his back porch also. And sometimes I've seen pictures of those where it's the question is What is that is that a bobcat. A 140-pound male mountain lion was hit by a car and killed in 2011 in Milford, Connecticut. It's not a skinny rope like tail like a housecat. Mountain lions don't usually travel more than 100 miles from where they are born. If it's someone that has an illegal captive animal that is accustomed to humans those leave a lot of evidence because they want to go around humans to find food meaning they're used to being fed by humans. 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. So when we talk about the threshold of evidence required to say for sure you have seen a mountain lion it is rather high. New Hampshire Public Radio | N.H.'s Fish and Game department says there's no proof. Are there mountain lions in New Hampshire? : r/newhampshire - reddit On Oct. 10, he gave a slide talk called "Wild Cats of New Hampshire," which included the bobcat and the lynx. Are these big cats back?Subscribe to WMUR on YouTube now for more: http://bit.ly/1lOjX9CGet more Manchester news: http://wmur.comLike us: http://facebook.com. I mean it wasn't your idea. 1,470 likes. And those and that's how you can go from a story that Pat says I have nothing to say about that to a story that you know could be the first verified sighting in over 100 years. They get a lot of media attention but compared to the the amount of times that a mountain lion could attack a person but doesn't because they don't typically view us as prey. DNA from scat or from fur, a clear track that is confirmed by an expert, or a photo that clearly shows a mountain lion. New Hampshire's Mountain Lions | NH Wildlife And they used to be this whole list of the different subspecies of mountain lion and it has since been reduced to just to the North American and the South American. Mountain Lions | Wildlife | New Hampshire Fish and Game Department So. There are corollaries in other states. HOLDERNESS, N.H. (AP) Two of the known mountain lions in New Hampshire have spent their 15 years in close proximity to humans. It's not an emerging endangered species no work no there are there are populations in specific states so the Florida panther is is an endangered species that sub population is in fact listed under the Endangered Species Act. How many mountain lions are in New Hampshire? - AnswersAll The views expressed in this program are those of the individuals and not those of an HP are its board of trustees or its underwriters. You could trace that was this same cat from point to point to point. They just end up in these places. Pat humans people leave deer carcasses up in trees. So here in New Hampshire when a person turns in something that the Department believes is possible mountain lion and believes it should be investigated further. And I I have this great text history of New Hampshire game and fir bears and I think by Helen Silver who used to work for fish and game and she sort of I kind eyes this animal in one of the quotes from 1892 stating that the catamaran was the most ferocious of all the wild beasts of New Hampshire his great size strength and agility of movement together with his formidable weapons rendered him the terror both of man and beast. He said matter of fact I do. Peter Biello: Yeah some of what she was saying sounds like it would require getting pretty close or at least having a nice zoom lens right Sam like. So so do what you can get to do what you can to get proof. While State Denies Mtn Lions are in NH, Numerous Sightings Say You know I'm like seriously I can't get a picture of the thing but what it what it is. Fear for others and those two polarizing opinions on the situation is what I believe brings out mystique and Sam you know I take kind of a long view on this. I mean no doubt a seen Bobcat seen his stuff. nh.gov | privacy policy | accessibility policy They create these big latrines that are very obvious. Peter Biello: I did mention four feet nose to tail would be kind of small for a mountain lion. Right. Me Im willing to believe its possible that there are some out there. I wasn't employed as biologists at the time of a situation that's been reported but so I started digging into this report and spoke with another wildlife biologist with the agency and said Do you know anything about this. Sam what's the incentive for the government to deny allegedly. 235 or nhandy@ledgertranscript.com. Yeah 13 to 15 years ago 13 to 15 years ago. Part II. Chartered 1973; Member of District 44-H; . So this whole illegal pet trade black market pro trade thing does does exist in a situation like that can happen. Well just that I have evidence and it was not it was denied by fishing game at the time and I you know there's I don't need to prove to anybody that I saw one just like some of your callers said okay. Patrick Tate: So I agree with what Sam said in part that their ability to go undetected for amount of time but ultimately it was detected. Sam Evans-Brown: Certainly that is a thing I've heard but again you have to think of the incentives involved here. Is there something particularly hospitable about New Hampshire Forests that make them want to come here. Mountain lions remain an enigmatic animal for residents of New Hampshire, with New Hampshire Fish and Game reporting three to five sightings per week. The western mountain lion lives in a more of a grassland open area now so to blend in with a very lighted situation here in the Northeast we are very shadowy dark situation because of the forest and our cats wear a darker brownish reddish color than what they were and they were also smaller than what the western mountain lion is. The panther, Fells concolor, is a beast of many names, most frequently referred to in New Hampshire history as catamount, but sometimes known locally as "Indian Devil" or "Carcajou", under which . I mean so what what is the practical change that it would bring to New Hampshire if any. Which which I think Pat and I have both experienced. If you have them email exchange at an HP board or give us a call to tell us your story. We're gonna cue you up and bring into the program listeners in just a moment but I want to ask about the role that Mountain Lions play in the ecosystem we've been talking a lot about mountain lions traveling and being sort of hard to track as they move. Long before NASA was asked to put a man on the moon one engineer had already figured out how to get there. So take care of this problem. That's next time on one day. For me as a person who's handled many bobcats and looked at many pictures Bobcat the White chin Bobcat right off is what comes out to me and then the black the the roughs on our Bobcats we'll have sometimes have black fringes on them. List of mountains of New Hampshire - Wikipedia From "History of New Hampshire Game and Furbearers" by Helenette Silver, Research Clerk, NH Fish and Game Dept. Mountain lions ( Puma concolor) are one of the six native species of wild cats in North America. So nowadays we think of this in the Northeast as crazy stuff that people have a mountain lion as a pet. So I know it's another unconfirmed report but you string enough of these together. Thank you very much for that story really appreciate it. Peter Biello: And that will make identification for a layperson rather difficult. Why are there so many false positives? Have you seen one. 19 Tate said that while a mountain lion sighting in New Hampshire isn't likely, it's not impossible. Let's talk to Bob in Laconia Bob. Share. Monday, December 5th: Mountain Lions in New Hampshire? Part II I hope she's listening and she had spoke to a lot of different people ended up having a couple of sightings of her alone without sort of by accident. Theres a project called the Cougar Network that tracks verified sightings, and they are all around us: Massachusetts, Connecticut, Maine, New York and New Brunswick have all had verified sightings over the past 20 years or so. The current estimate is 2,000 - 2,700 throughout Arizona. That's why we always go back to the physical evidence to support what they're reporting. And so so with their limited staff and limited budget that is that is more and more limited every year because you know fewer people are buying hunting and fishing licenses. The engineers Dan Colgan our senior producer is Allan Grimm. N.H. So here we have you know a very qualified biologist who who found a print took a plaster cast found a scat send it to a university. I'm Peter Biello. Well I can't tell you what you saw. They reported seeing the big tail and everything everything. On a dirt road. Reviewing the evidence, the U.S. These young males are tracking looking for mates and if they don't find a mate they just keep moving and moving and moving. And to anyone listening I would just say you know fishing game who wants proof right. Monadnock Ledger-Transcript - Claims of mountain lions spread We'll be right back. For over 38 years the Saddleback Mountain Lions have offered people a chance to give back to their community. It traveled all the way from from you know Minnesota to New York without being so seen Patrick take. Want to put this to to Patrick Tate who may have heard some some info or info from listeners like you about these these these cats. Think you've seen a mountain lion? And that the Florida panther was more closely related to the eastern outline than the western mountain lion was. If youd like to submit a question (or send a mountain line photo) you can record it as a voice memo on your smart phone and send it tooustidein@nhpr.org, OR call our hotline, 1-844-GO-OTTER (1-844-466-8837) and leave a message. But Absence of Evidence Is Not Evidence of Absence, Right? www.wildlife.state.nh.us, Buy or Renew Your Saltwater Fishing License, Great Bay National Estuarine Research Reserve. I really really enjoyed listening to this program so thank you all very much. And I think a lot of folks would like them to be around. The species that once inhabited the Northeast, known as the eastern mountain lion, is now extinct. And I think this is a really interesting story for a couple of reasons one is that it proves what Pat was saying which that basically from New York state where its traces was really picked up on a game camera around Lake George all the way down to Connecticut there was numerous. I wanted to get your thoughts on the mystique of the mountain lion start with you Rick. 10 things to do in NH this weekend: Dartmouth Dance, Hamilton De Holanda & more, Turkish restaurant in the Upper Valley aims to help those affected by recent earthquakes, RFK Jr. tells NH crowd hes considering a presidential run, Epping woman pleads guilty to threatening Michigan election official in 2020. So one thing I'd point out is we've been talking about situations with no evidence a number of them come in with photographs and yet what they fit what they description of the animal they saw and by the way I got a picture of what I saw. We have evidence and as biologists we would find it quite exciting to find that evidence of one in the state. So I hate the idea that there's some sort of upward you know downward pressure from the bosses saying Don't you know don't tell about the mountain lions because it'll scare away the tourists. Caller: Hi. So yeah as far as wildlife species that put deer and trees know there aren't any others that I know of that put deer in trees just just humans might be responsible for that. Yes. Can you tell us about that story. PublishedNovember 16, 2018 at 6:16 AM EST. Any sense of of whether or not mountain lions are sort of wary of more population dense areas like like the one he was describing Rick. And they were using all the habitat. They sent he sent his scent those two samples with his to Wyoming an unfortunate Fish and Game Commission there did not get a positive read on it but send it back to Central Michigan University where they did a nuclear micro satellite DNA analysis and found no significant difference between that scat and other scats that were tested from the Rocky Mountain region. I believe I saw one that's fine and I'm not looking for an immediate story. A lot of times. OK. Sunny today high temperatures low to mid 80s it'll be clear tonight overnight lows in the 50s for tomorrow sunshine with high temperatures mid to upper 80s. And now that everyone and their mother has a remote camera in their back yard its just so, so unlikely that there are resident, breeding mountain lions in New England that are living invisibly among us, he says, Its become Big Foot.. Sam Evans-Brown: And second the evidence required is is you know pretty pretty tough to gather. We'll push great photos to the front page. It's good to talk to you. GAP MOUNTAIN LIONS CLUB Fitzwilliam, New Hampshire (USA) District 44-N . Patrick Tate: So I just got to throw a little interesting side note in this. And I can recall its information but I can't confirm or verify anything. Current conditions in New Hampshire would support a mountain lion, according to Tate, as forests have returned, allowing for prey species to become more prevalent. But having read a bit of information about his cougar there are a darker subspecies. So for those reasons I don't believe the standards are too high the amount of game cameras out on the landscape to record images department alone through contracts had over 150 throughout the state biologists go through various deer yards throughout the year. Residents believe cougars still roam New Hampshire's forests - AP NEWS 1957. I live pretty much on the town line of Greenfield just a couple of miles down in the Greenfield. Patrick Tate: Yes. Pat ruse and he was sampling doing DNA samples from cats in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. Peter Biello: Well yeah. Patrick Tate: I've from all the situations I've read and learned about wildlife. Residents believe cougars still roam New Hampshire's forests Oh you saw him online. Because I mean as we've heard in the past 10 minutes like there's there's some disagreement or at least some some vagueness about what an actual mountain lion should appear like in the wild assuming we can even get close enough. How to Report a Possible Mountain Lion Sighting. This is a machine-generated transcript, and may contain errors. Incredible sighting and I called him the fish and game and they immediately sent me to a website to look at all the bobcat pictures. So I think in that story there's there's something for the believers and the nonbelievers and I and you know Mark L. Brock is who is a gentleman with the cougar Network told me this story is evidence that that if they were here we would know about it. The species that once inhabited the Northeast, known as the eastern mountain lion, is now extinct. And it was unmistakable. Sam Evans-Brown: Well this might be a good moment to talk about hoaxes. Less successful males roam further. Give today. And I have to use that word allegedly because there is so much dispute about what people see and what they actually see. Patrick Tate: Yeah yeah. Mountain lion or cat running across. I have no doubt that there are mountain lion roaming New Hampshire. I found a second scat scent both to him. If you go on YouTube and search mount lion Pat you can see people patent their hundred pound kiddie like its regular mascot cat. A monthly donation of $5 makes a real difference. It doesn't happen as much anymore. Verifiable pictures recorded by the observing person or a trail camera. brings a lot of. Patrick Tate: I don't believe it is. Have you heard stories do you have questions about the mountain line. support for an HBO who comes from you our listener Sam from advanced in you a local New Hampshire nonprofit specializing in college student loans and student refinancing options. Peter Biello: Wow. Some argue that it's a leap of faith. So I just brought up the bobcat thing because the location is fascinating to me that that that location we have Bobcats existing but that location we have a mountain lion report because it's a developed area and which brings me back to earlier what I had said it's a bouncing ball. That's too big for Bobcat. No I saw a camel. We've met Fish and Game's BURDEN OF PROOF. Information that weed family automotive dot com sunny for today high temperatures low to mid 80s clear tonight overnight lows in the 50s tomorrow sunny highs in the upper 80s. The book MAMMAL TRACKS & SIGN by Mark Elbroch has pictures of mountain lion scat found at a multiple beaver kill. SUE Morse naturalist and science director for the organization keeping track. Administrative Links. Mike thanks for your call. And those are not the same things. There was no sign of it. We did a short segment about mountain lion sightings earlier this year and and after which I was sent a photo and also a video recording that was mostly just audio because it was so dark the photo just a quick reverse Google image search you can put images online and see where else where else they've been posted revealed that the photo had been taking out taken out in Wyoming and has been used you know hundreds of times to claim and the person who sent it to me said it had been taken New Hampshire. Peter Biello: Mm hmm. and territorial animals are much more inclined to create a problem with passer bys than dispersing animals in fact I'd be totally shocked if a dispersal would encounter with a human purposefully unless they had already had some type of training to do so. The tail leave is a giveaway but not everybody gets to see the tail. Patrick Tate: In theory it's a passing ball of a court and it goes wherever the bottom Ball wants to go. It's listed as population of least concern. And they asked me about the tail which I just did not remember that tail out of that whole experience. For all the men out there that don't realize it. So I did a bunch of research and all the documentation I found was there art are not any pieces of DNA of Eastern online. Patrick Tate: So it's interesting it's brought up. And I just said I saw I saw they from behind the shoulder all the way past the long tail. Select image for larger view.